Empowering Women Through Radical Tech with Elvie

Jessica De Bellis: Welcome to another episode of Individuality Unleashed. I am your step in host, Jessica De Bellis, or as some people like to call me JDB. I have literally just gotten off a flight after skiing and apres in France for the last five days because Vern's ill. So as you can imagine, getting a call up 10 minutes before I'm leaving the house to host a podcast is quite intense, but here we are. And I am with the lovely ladies from Elvie. Thank you very much for joining us.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: You're welcome. Thanks for having us.

Jessica De Bellis: Thank you. I think to start off, it'd be great just to get an intro about your roles, your experience, and then we can kind of delve straight into it.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Sounds good. Well, my name's Victoria. I've been working at Elvie for about three years and I lead up CRM, which is really exciting. I've been able to introduce some cool stuff to Elvie and one of those things is working on Wunderkind, which has been really exciting to partner with you guys. I've actually been in the industry for about 12 years. I know I probably don't look at, but it's something that I am really passionate about. I kind of really specialize in email marketing early on and have really got a love of email marketing and data overall. And yeah, now working my magic at Elvie.

Jessica De Bellis: Perfect. I mean you've definitely got great skin, so doesn't look it. And I can say from partying on tables for the last few days, I definitely have aged a bit.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Very nice. And I'm Roselle, I work in the global brand team, so I'm the global brand manager within our breastfeeding category. So I really work on the global brand and product strategies, our global brand campaigns and also new product developments, which is a super exciting area.

Jessica De Bellis: Perfect. So Roselle, I'm going to ask you my first question. I think one of the most interesting things is kind of the history around Elvie and how it's really trying to shape and be a leader in the fem tech world. So I guess to kick things off, could you give us a bit of a background on who Elvie is, the mission and why we are here today?

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Yeah, definitely. So Elvie's mission is to empower women through radical female first technology. The company was founded in 2013 and it was founded because there was a real lack of availability of products for women in the healthcare space and within the technological space as well. So at the time, it was founded by Tanya Boler who she started with the pelvic floor trainer. Because at the time, there just wasn't really anything on the market for pelvic floor health, so we launched with Elvie Trainer in 2013. And then from there we decided to look at what are the other kind of industries within the health tech space that were really lacking innovation when it came to women's products. And one kind of those categories was breast pumping. So in 2018 we launched the world's first wearable breast pump. It's ultra quiet, super discreet, and that's known as Elvie Pump. And from there we kind of continue to revolutionize and redefine women's health categories. And so we're on a constant journey to look at what are the spaces that there's real lack of innovation when it comes to women's health tech.

Jessica De Bellis: That's amazing. I probably didn't do this to begin with because it shows my lack of podcasting, but I am a client partnerships manager Wunderkind and I actually rep the Elvie brand. And one thing I love about working with you guys and your approach to the industry is encouraging not only flexibility, but how can we help women live these flexible lives, especially the post COVID world. So having these breast pumps that women can be on the move, they can go back into the office, you could essentially be doing it whilst you're on a Zoom call in such a discreet way, I think is such a beautiful thing. And it's just being able to be in partnership with you guys for a brand that's really trying to be thought leaders in this space is just remarkable. Is there anything that you've learned so far that if you were to leave Elvie that you would take elsewhere when we're kind of talking about female thought leadership and change in the industry and in the fem tech world?

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: I think for me personally, it would be about really listening to our consumer. Really listening to what women are wanting and what's really lacking to be honest. I think that's what Elvie does really well, is that everything that we design is with women at the center. And we do that by really speaking to women, understanding what's challenging, what challenges they're facing and what are the struggles. And then from there, really building products around that. And I think you can kind of take that within any industry. Who is your consumer and where are the gaps? And I think not only in product development, but the way we talk to consumers as well. From a marketing point of view, it's a universal skill of how we can actually listen to consumers and what is it that they're really looking for.

Jessica De Bellis: And where are you listening to these consumers? What do you think are your main touch points to really get that personalized understanding?

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Yeah, so I mean that's a great question. And there's multiple channels in how we kind of listen to our consumers. We have a great kind of research and development team that speaks to our users and we do lots of consumer insights. We have an insights led team who do huge studies with thousands of breast pumping moms to find out what their needs are. And then on top of that we have kind of a really strong social following. So across our Instagram and TikTok and our Facebook groups, there's a whole community of people there who are really open to sharing their ideas, sharing their challenges with each other, and that's a really great way to listen to what women want and where the gaps are as well.

Jessica De Bellis: That's really interesting to know. So what's next for Elvie then? What are you listening? What are you hearing? What do you think is the next phase in Elvie?

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Well, there's a lot more to go. And we are a taboo busting brand and we are not afraid to talk about topics that are really going to propel women's health in the right direction. And there's a lot of room for growth in that area when you think about it. As a brand, we're only just starting, so it's a really exciting time to be at Elvie. And yeah, there's just a lot more to come, so watch this space.

Jessica De Bellis: Oh, trust me, I will be watching. Okay, to change the tune a little bit, over to you Victoria. How have the rising digital advertising costs on platforms like Google and Facebook impacted your marketing budget and strategy? We know this is a huge focus at the moment within marketing because everyone's seen these rising costs and especially what's going on with the economy and decreasing return on investments. So how have you seen these costs impact you guys?

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Well, I think we have really had to come together as a team to really focus on how we can join up all of our digital touch points. I think we've quite often focused on our individual channels and really looked at acquisition and retention sometimes separately. Obviously we've always tried to work together, but I think now it's looking at what we can get for our money. And I think we've just had to be really smart with our strategy. So whereas we once upon a time would've spent money on paid ads, top of funnel or really through the funnel, we are now trying to see how we can reduce costs through a combination of lead generation and affiliate marketing and trying different new types of media as well, so testing new partnerships. And I think it is all about AB testing and then how we can really then utilize the first party data that we have to then carry on the conversation rather than just focus on sales that we would be getting through the acquisition channels.

Jessica De Bellis: And that's one thing I love about working with you guys is your open- mindedness to it all because we know that it's so important to build out that first party data and have that base. But not only just from a retargeting standpoint, but also how you guys can use that base to then speak to your audiences. And I guess this is another opportunity to really build that relationship, personalize, support women along their journey through whatever stage they are for example in the breastfeeding cycle if they've finished it. So I really love the way you guys kind of look at it from a strategy perspective as well as looking at it from an outside perspective.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Definitely we have grown really, really quickly and we are fortunate to have products that are so successful. And when we first launched Elvie Pump in 2018, I mean we broke our website when we launched in the US because we just didn't predict the amount of sales that we would have. So we are lucky that word of mouth is a great tool for us. But one thing that I think a lot of users don't know and mums particularly don't know when they're using our pump is that it's a connected device. It's been developed to be used by an app. We have an app that it's been designed not just about how to track the usage of your pump, but also to personalize your pumping experience. So where we're focusing a lot of our attention is how we change that and improve that for every single mom. So really we are trying to make sure that our marketing does exactly the same thing. So for us to provide a truly unique experience, we need to have that information from day one, so before they're even becoming a customer, we need to know exactly what their struggles are, what are the limitations? How can we help solve their challenges? One of the things that we've just launched on site is an online quiz. So it's a product tool to help a potential customer decide what pump is actually right for them because we now have two main pump products which they can choose for. Which they're great in different ways, but if you're an expectant mom and if this is your first pregnancy, how do you go about choosing even the right one, let alone knowing how to use it and then making sure that that experience is the best experience possible?

Jessica De Bellis: So it's always like it's coming back to the fact of not having one size fits all-

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: 100%.

Jessica De Bellis: ... foreverything basically.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Yeah, exactly.

Jessica De Bellis: And I think as women, we feel that because we understand how important it is to best support our bodies in that moment. And having a brand which is female founded, everything is being built on what fits a female body, not a stereotype. Not making any assumptions here, but just saying. I think everyone can definitely feel that. And it even leads straight into your strategies, looking at different ways that you can speak to women individually, creating quizzes to help them pick the most bespoke product for themselves.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Definitely. And it all comes back to redefining the category and how we can innovate and how we can really personalize the experience. It comes across even in our products. So last Friday, which was World Breast Pumping Day, we launched a brand new initiative called Smart Rhythm Pumping. And that's really all about knowing that women have different pumping goals and they have different breastfeeding goals. And so with that comes different challenges and different obstacles. And by speaking to consumers and speaking to women who are on that journey, the current offering on the market was one pumping rhythm. And a pumping rhythm is a suction pattern of the electric pump. And so what Elvie did was we reevaluated that and we spoke to women and found out what were the key challenges that we are facing. And from that we launched three brand new pumping rhythms that were really bespoke to particular needs. So whether that was optimizing milk output. Or if that's experiencing pain while pumping, we have a rhythm for that now. Or if you are kind of experiencing heavy leaks or more let down, then we also have a pumping rhythm for that. And that's for existing Elvie moms as well as prospective moms because it was a hardware and app update. So as Vicki mentioned, we have smart connected devices, so existing Elvie mums can update the app and then they have the offering of the three pumping rhythms, which we launched as well as our original. And that really allows them to personalize their experience and have the ultimate pumping experience as well. So it kind of translates from the marketing initiatives that we work on all the way through to how our products are designed.

Jessica De Bellis: Yeah, that's incredible because you guys are breaking down the stigma that one size should fit all whilst actually there isn't. We need to allow women to be in this environment and empower them for whatever their body needs. And I think the fact that you can even do this on a device that was previously bought through an update just shows the power of technology and what you're able to do. But also that at the heart of the business, you guys are here to support women and empower them.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Yeah, definitely. And I think one of the challenges that we've had is really communicating the fact that it's not just you buy a pump, you use the pump and that's it. We've developed a device that is smart, but smart in a way that your phone is smart. You get updates on your phone and one minute you've got one basic feature, the next minute you have something completely new. Our pumps are exactly the same. It's just making sure that our customers know that and having the right data and the ability to actually reach all of our customers in the right way to ensure that they know exactly how to optimize that is a challenge, but it's something that we're working on. And I think working with the likes of Wunderkind to help improve our first party data and our reach is really key there.

Jessica De Bellis: I guess that again comes back to the idea of how important it's to have that base there to be able to communicate to, especially with all these changes that are going on. Kind of going off with your app, Apple have released changes to their iOS. Has that affected your approach to digital advertising on that platform or the way you can speak to your app users?

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: So I think for us it's actually trying to tap into the app users. So I think traditionally, well, we've spoken to our customers on Facebook, but we've also relied heavily on Facebook advertising. So when they introduced iOS 14. 5, that meant that we had to change how we were gathering and using that data, which is when we obviously looked to invest in our first party data. iOS 15 has had an impact on our email marketing. So where we've been able to look at things like open rates and engagement that way, we now know that it's not really something we can use. And even though email isn't dying, it's still very much alive, it's trying to ensure that we're expanding our reach and tapping into new channels. So actually the app is potentially an area that we can focus on because it's part of the product offering. We know that our users are more engaged with it, so how can we ensure that the message is really evident? How are we communicating as best as possible without making it seem like we're just trying to sell to them? At the moment, we don't utilize that to the full extent. So I think it's actually a way that we can start being clever with our app messaging because we haven't used it so much as a marketing tool and we know that it's important for our product. So it's just making that personalized journey even more so.

Jessica De Bellis: Even more personalized, yeah. So jumping a bit back before when we spoke about the increase with Facebook and Google. Because of this, are you seeing a shift in where you're now spending your budget or do you see an opportunity or a need to kind of shift budget from those inefficient channels into more efficient channels?

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Yeah. So we have shifted budget and I think one of the biggest changes last year was actually working with Wunderkind. So we were able to use some of our budget to focus on how we actually optimize our identification on site and improving our trigger emails. And understanding how that is an additional channel that we could think of as almost like a performance channel. So not just thinking of performance marketing as paid media, affiliate marketing, paid social, actually it's slightly different and we have more control over it. And then what we are getting, we can keep, it's our own data. We are not beholden to the likes of Facebook, so it is more of a long- term investment.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Well, also, sorry, just to add on to that, we're really thinking about the customer journey all throughout our channels. So instead of being fully reliant on the digital tactics which are going to communicate that kind of full funnel experience, we're actually bringing people into the Elvie journey and then thinking about how we do that on our blogs. How we think about our product pages. What is the tools like the category quiz tool that Vicki mentioned earlier. What are these other kind of channels that we can really bring consumers down through the funnel and really make them aware of all of the key benefits at the right point in the customer journey. And so I think the shift in the digital landscape has made marketeers have to really think about that holistic journey and using all touch points to really optimize in the best possible way really.

Jessica De Bellis: And speaking to people where they want to be spoken to, not just being so reliant on one. I think across all my brands and clients that I work with, I'm hearing that people are trying to shift their mindset. Even when they think about Wunderkind as the retargeting performance channel, using some of that inefficient budget through the likes of Facebooks and the Google's investing in us because they're going to see those higher returns. But then also having it in such a personalized way that they can then build out their base for then you guys to speak through your own newsletters and your own tools because that data is now yours.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Yeah. At the end of the day, we know the power of brand, and I think in a climate like today, people panic and they think, well, we just need customers. We need to acquire new customers who we can attribute to direct sales, and that's going to allow us to weather the storm. But in reality, we know that's not true. And really changing the mindset to think of brand building over that period, however you do it. We can do it through big campaigns, through smaller campaigns. And just really, I think we have a great platform to speak to our community and make a difference there. And I think that's going to have the biggest impact overall. And we're seeing it through the results that we're getting through share of voice and other metrics.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Yeah, definitely.

Jessica De Bellis: Yeah. I guess it always comes back to customer lifecycle, right? I think especially for your brand, you've got such a small and very specific range of products. So when you think about repeat purchases, it might be very different to a clothing brand, for example. But the fact that you guys are sitting here and saying it's not just about that first time purchase, you have to be speaking to people and building that relationship for lifetime value really says so much and really highlights the importance of it.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Oh, 100%. And we know that the power of the customer is so important and we've paid for those customers, so let's utilize that. And even where we are seeing that it's a longer consideration phase for our customers, equally we do know that they are more likely to come back now that we have additional accessories. And we also have realized that Elvie Pump is the kind of product that people will buy as gifts. We really tap into our referral channel because we know that advocacy is really key for us where people do think of Elvie as a one- time only purchase. Actually, that's not necessarily the case because we're seeing people come back, even if it's not necessarily for themselves, it's for their friends and their family whether that's through gifting. Or now we have products like Elvie Curve and Elvie Catch, which are helping women in a different way, but they're way more affordable in comparison to our pump. So they're almost buying into the Elvie experience without having to invest as much. So it's sometimes a good entry point. But yeah, it's allowing us really to nurture that relationship.

Jessica De Bellis: And people want to be in the know.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: They really do.

Jessica De Bellis: People want to know what's happening. Everyone doesn't want to have all the FOMO because I get the worst FOMO in the world so I think that's important. And especially when you're buying gifts, you want to make sure, okay, I know my best friend's go and have a baby in a few months, what's going on in the industry? What can I help support it with?

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Exactly.

Jessica De Bellis: Be open- minded as possible I think they say. Okay. Next question on my Vern list is how have you adapted your overall marketing approach to navigate the challenges of a weak economy? It's a bit deep.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: That is very deep. Oh, wow. Well, I guess I kind of touched on it, the whole brand building thing. It's realizing that we can't just focus on performance marketing and spending on those channels. And I think we are, well, for example, the smart rhythm campaign that we've launched is great because it's a feature that we can sell into our existing base for free. And it's a great way for us to build the brand without getting people to just buy. And obviously it's another thing that's good for us as a way of standing out from competitors and ensuring that customers know that we are premium for a reason.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Yeah-

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: We might not-

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Oh, sorry, Vicky.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: No, I was just going to say we're not necessarily the cheapest product around, but-

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: It's all about really communicating the value that the products provide people. And I think that's one key in terms of how we're redefining the category is through looking at smart ways that we can really improve our existing products, which is kind of the initiative of smart rhythm pumping. And yeah, it's really also kind of understanding that it is kind of a challenging time at the moment, and that's not unique to Elvie. That's kind of all businesses and all companies are facing that. So it's kind of like where we can focus to continue to share our mission, which is what we're all very, very passionate about. We're a company that is very mission led. And when we think about that, then it's much more easy to communicate kind of our purpose and the reason why we are here to consumers. And it's something that's going to really kind of propel us through difficult times, is really communicating that you're not just buying a product when you come to Elvie. You are buying into the mission that is super important, and that's propelling women's health tech in the right direction, and it's helping to change the landscape. And I think that's what we are working really hard to really share our story and build awareness about that as well.

Jessica De Bellis: You're buying into the community essentially.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Yes.

Jessica De Bellis: And that's just lit off such a spark in my mind, is that no matter what's going on in the economy, really honing on your mission and making people feel connected and reminding them why you're here is a way to navigate it. Because there is still so much more to learn, there's so much more to grow. There's so much more to develop, especially within the female health world.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Yeah. And that's what you get, I guess personally, when you speak to people about Elvie, people are really interested. And they're once they hear about our story and what we are here to do, people are really passionate and they want to get on board and they want to support companies who are making a difference and who are much more purpose led. And we see that in the consumer research is consumers are looking to back and they trust brands that have a purpose. And I think that's where Elvie really differentiates within the categories, within both categories. And I think it's where we are going to continue to stand out from the crowd because our purpose and our mission isn't going away. It's only something that we all feel much strongly about, and we're all kind of really passionate about where we can go and the future for Elvie.

Jessica De Bellis: And I guess the more light that gets shined onto it, the stronger that sense of community and that sense of purpose will be rubber stamped into the world.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Yeah, definitely.

Jessica De Bellis: We need more investment in fem tech.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Yes, we do.

Jessica De Bellis: Okay. Shifting the conversation a bit. In your experience, what are the key factors to consider when deciding where to allocate marketing budgets and resources in the current climate? And that's also from a brand perspective as well, not just from a performance marketing point of view. I think it'd be really interesting for everyone to know.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Yeah, okay. That's a great question. And I feel like we are always, especially in brand, we always have this kind of balance between short- term performance and returns, and then also kind of the long- term strategy, which is going to take a lot of investment to build that brand. So for us, it's really navigating that balance. And I work in the global team, so I'm very much focused on long- term strategy and how we can build kind of that brand and tell our story to more people. And I work very closely with the local markets who are much more focused on the tactical marketing initiatives of how they can see results today, because essentially we do need to still see results in order for us to grow. So it is quite a challenging balancing act. And yeah, it's split across. What we are really focusing on is how we can build our earned channels, how we can increase our first party data. And so that's where we are really focusing our budgets as well.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Yeah, I would say that we still have a lot of work to do, particularly in Europe where we're relatively new in the marketplace. So brand building is still key, and we know that to see results there, we've got to carry on focusing on that. And I think even globally and locally, budgets have been reduced, but we are still investing in key campaigns. And we've got campaigns planned this year which we are hoping will be a really good focus for our core products. And I think the other area that we know is so important, and actually we are getting, I guess there's more awareness today is the pelvic floor trainer product that we offer, so Elvie Trainer. And just the importance of pelvic floor health. And I think that we've done great work in the breast pumping category, but the pelvic floor category, I think it's still taboo. And I think, again, this is where we can utilize our own channels to really shout about that and make it acceptable to talk about pelvic floor health and all of the results. I'm trying to think of a good word, the benefits of that.

Jessica De Bellis: And you're breaking down the stigma attached to that.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: And breaking down the stigma because I think once upon a time you would never have thought about doing Kegel exercises in your twenties. It's like surely that's only for women who have had babies, but now women are understanding that it's never too early to start.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Yeah. I think the pelvic floor category has kind of a big job in terms of the actual awareness of the category itself is quite small and the education. So the pelvic floor within Elvie, the pelvic floor kind of job to be done is really educating women about what the pelvic floor is and the fact that you can have products that can actually help you strengthen that. Because we know that in the UK alone, one in four women suffer from incontinence. So it's a really big kind of health issue, but you don't really think about it or it's not spoken about. So yeah, it is going back to one of our key goals is to break taboos and to talk about topics that are kind of necessary to move women's health in the right direction so they can have access to really smart technology that helps them live their better lives. And so the pelvic floor category is something that, it's what we launched with when Elvie was founded, and it's something that we are very passionate about as well within women's health tech.

Jessica De Bellis: Especially it's just from an education standpoint, right?

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: 100%.

Jessica De Bellis: There's so many times my friends and I sit around and we start talking about even what we learned in school compared to what we've had to figure out on our own.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Oh my God, totally.

Jessica De Bellis: And I think I remember I was at a dinner once recently, there was six of us. Five of us have polycystic ovaries, but not once did you ever learn about it in school? No one ever talks about it, but it's until you break down these stigmas and share things that you actually learn how important it is.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Oh my god, 100%. The amount of people I know have endometriosis, but no one ever talks about it. And it's so hard to be diagnosed, but it's so common, surprisingly common.

Jessica De Bellis: And it affects your fertility. And it's like unless people know that no one's going to get it checked, because-

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: No, exactly.

Jessica De Bellis: ...everyone always says, oh, it's just a bad period.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: A doctor's like, " Well, go away. Come back in a year. If it's still bad, we might look into it." And it's like, well, no, this is ridiculous.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: It just goes to show that we have so far to go.

Jessica De Bellis: It's just absolutely so far. I know. Well, we have a lot more we need to share. We have a lot more we need to learn and grow from. Okay, how do you measure the success and return on investments of your marketing efforts? And then how do you adjust your strategy based on these metrics? So I guess to start off with, because that's just long, is what is success to you guys?

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: That is a really hard one because I guess it's a question that, I mean, everyone wants to try and find an answer to measurement and measuring accurately. Attribution is hard. Everyone has different ways of measuring, whether it's CPAs, CAC, ROAS, which I think when you're spending a lot of money on advertising is the automatic metric to look at. But I think as Roselle's mentioned, it's a fine balance. And you're having to see, right, we are not just focusing on our performance channels and understanding what the attribution is there and looking at Google Analytics and working out if somebody has been acquired via Facebook or Google. Are sales attributed to an email or did they go direct to a website? It is much more than that. And I think it's this brand piece and the balancing act, which is so hard to measure. So I think no one has the right answer. So it's just trying to make the best of what you have. And I think platforms like Wunderkind at least allow you to not just see immediate results, but you can actually measure the gains through the data and through the leads that you've managed to get off the back of it. To then utilize CRM platforms to see what happens once you've acquired that lead all the way through the customer journey. At least you are able to track that. It's just hard to track the impact of brand. And I guess that acquisition piece is also what everyone focuses on, but it can be so hard to really know that full potential of a customer.

Jessica De Bellis: I guess it's creating depth to the data, right?

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Depth, yeah.

Jessica De Bellis: And actually this is something me and my team are working on at the moment. We're kind of looking at a customer's life cycle and how Wunderkind keeps funneling it back in. Because the value in strengthening that data and creating more depth could be equally as important to the revenue that's attributed from a triggered email in a sense. Because allowing you guys from, whether it's like a newsletter perspective or whatever, to understand that customer and make a more bespoke communication towards them. So I'm glad you said that.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Exactly. To me, it's all about customer lifetime value. And really that's the most important metric because you can look at the return on ad spend, but ultimately that's focusing in on a much smaller tactical initiative that is great for that period of time. But it's no use if the customer's then going to lose interest and that's it. They've churned, they've gone. They've gone to your competitor.

Jessica De Bellis: And I think as well, some people say like, oh, everything's going on with the market, we need to pull money out of everything. And it's like, well no. Now more than ever, you need to be speaking to people. Because you need to be reminding them of who you are, keep that lifetime value forever building and forever strengthening. So that when we kind of jump out of this world, you've got this space, you've got this brand loyalty and customer loyalty there that are eager and ready to rock and roll.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Yeah, definitely.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Agreed.

Jessica De Bellis: All right, another question from Vern. What are the biggest challenges facing marketers today and how can they overcome them?

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: So many challenges.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Yeah. I mean for us in the breastfeeding category in particular, it is becoming increasingly saturated and we are seeing existing players launch within the wearable health tech space. So I mean, I can't speak on behalf of my competitors, but what I can say is Elvie is really focusing on where we can improve our product offering. And so that comes down to personalization, how we can speak to our users and really figure out what are the key challenges and therefore create the smart technology to be able to meet those challenges. And we're also focused on building that brand. We know that Elvie, when people know about it, they're really passionate and they're really willing to support. But we want to let more people know because we know that it has such a strong mission and a really strong purpose. And so I feel like within this climate, within this challenging competitive space and within the economic challenges that we're facing, it's like that's going to be our focus. And that's where Elvie's really going to hone in to be able to tell more people about our mission and to get more smart tech to more women.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: I think the challenges are, well, particularly from a CRM point of view, the changes in policy and technology. We are having to evolve all the time. And I think just what we've seen with email marketing and the privacy changes when Apple introduced their new privacy feature to be able to hide your email address, I mean, that's had huge implications. And also just trying to evolve with the times. I'm a big advocate of email and I think seeing all the technology now that's available in terms of really making interactive emails the norm. How can we make that user experience better than ever before? Because people's inboxes are so busy and you only have a few seconds to grab their attention. So what is it that we can do to make sure that that's the best that we can offer? But yeah, always challenges always evolving. And we're always ready to take on those challenges, I think.

Jessica De Bellis: What do you think is next for fem tech? Getting a bit out of the box here.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Oh wow.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Well, yeah, I mean, there's so much that needs to be done. I think the first step is really raising awareness and educating. Firstly, educating women, but also everyone on kind of the issues that women are facing within the healthcare space and within society as well. It's like educating, raising awareness. And then for us, it's continuing to think about how we can innovate products that are really going to meet the challenges that women are facing and design products with women at the heart. Which is something which is surprisingly, has taken a very long time. It's crazy.

Jessica De Bellis: Doesn't it infuriate you when you think about it though?

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Yeah, I know.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: It's mad.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: It's mad.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: I would say everything that Roselle said. I agree. Yeah, it's insane that actually, if you look at how the iPhone has evolved in the last 10 years compared to the breast pump in the last 30 years-

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Decades.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: ...decades, it's just mad. And you're like, an iPhone is great, but-

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: It's also being designed for a man.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: For a man.

Jessica De Bellis: For a man.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: I mean, I know I did choose a big phone, but look at this, it's insane.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: I mean everything from seat belts to-

Jessica De Bellis: Oh, have you guys read that book?

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Oh, yes.

Jessica De Bellis: Invisible Women.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Invisible Women.

Jessica De Bellis: It's like toilet space, how it's like they look at space and it's 50/ 50. It's like, well, hang on a sec. It's a lot longer and harder for a woman to go to the bathroom than it is for a man.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Exactly. There's always a queue outside the toilets for women.

Jessica De Bellis: Police vests, they're built on a man's body. The placement of an airbag in a car.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Football kits now, that's the latest. Football kits for women not designed specifically for a woman's body.

Jessica De Bellis: I hadn't heard that one.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Yeah, yeah. It's a new one.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: I mean, it's everything. And it's only quite recently in that women have been kind of included in a lot of medical studies because having a menstrual cycle means that you are" complicated." And that's just wipe out 50% of the population within the samples that they use because it is too tricky. And I think that is a huge issue and it has huge ramifications for women's health. And so like I said, there's so much to be done within this area.

Jessica De Bellis: Even the fact of fertility. We're kind of taught our whole lives that oh, as long as you have a baby before you are 33 or 30 sometimes, you're fine. No research has ever really has been spent on it to the extent that it should be. And now I'm at that age and I'm hearing my friend's stories and the limitations of medical understanding on female fertility is ridiculous. It's just insane.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: It's shocking. I think everywhere you go it's shocking. And yet it's just you come to expect that. But at the same time, it's still like how though.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: And it's crazy. Without women, human beings wouldn't exist.

Jessica De Bellis: Wouldn't exist.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: I know that it takes too tango, but the fact is that women have wombs that grow babies. Why aren't we doing more about that?

Jessica De Bellis: Yeah. Our bodies literally changed to fit the exact cycle of a baby. The fact that the vitamins your breast milk provides is exact to the month of the baby is just like-

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: It's insane.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: It's insane.

Jessica De Bellis: But unfortunately, we haven't been given an equal share of the world's healthcare spend. But, you know what I always say. Change starts from today and we can all be that force for change.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Definitely. That's a really good point.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: I agree.

Jessica De Bellis: Well thank you. Well, I think that's a nice place to end it. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Oh, no, thanks. Thank you so much for having us.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Our pleasure.

Jessica De Bellis: I know this has been a fun look workshop. I always thought my first podcast would be about my dating life.

Roselle Forman, Global Brand Manager, Elvie: Workshop for me.

Victoria Harvey, Senior Global CRM Manager, Elvie: Maybe the next episode.

Jessica De Bellis: Maybe the next episode. Yeah. I was in inaudible yesterday. Here I am today. Well, guys, that's been another episode of Individuality Unleashed. Thank you very much for joining us and who knows you might see me again soon. Bye.